Twitter lists have been rolled out and they are dividing the Twitterverse.
Some love them, some hate them and some (like me) think that there are better free services out there that perform the same function (and in a better way). It is my opinion that rather than focusing on lists, Twitter should instead be focusing on how to reduce the spam waves that have been devastating it.
At first, lists were something exclusive and they were all the Twitter rage (in the that way that if you had already received the “invitation” to start using lists, you were part of the “cool crowd” and if you hadn’t, you were a
loser). And it was pretty annoying within the realm of the Twitterverse to hear the “cool cats” talking about lists when you weren’t part of the enabled crowd.
Then, the service was more extensively out and users started making their lists. Then, as these things inevitably go, things started to get tricky.
Much has been written about Twitter lists and I am not going to explain what they are and how you use them. There are much better people doing that and people who write way better than I do. Take Brian McDaniel’s post regarding Twitter Lists for example:
I encourage you (and myself) to ignore the numbers and just be who you are. It is a challenge we all face, but hopefully we will instead embrace ignoring statistics and pursuing real relationships with genuine people.
In my opinion, this should be what everyone should be doing. But who am I, right?
Welcome to the races: You are now a click-bag
Let’s take a look at Twitter “monsters*” Pete Cashmore, from Mashable, and Apple’s #1 Evangelist, Guy Kawasaki, Alltop’s God and Guru.
Last week, Cashmore wrote a post on Mashable asking its readers and followers to help Mashable beat President Barack Obama on the Twitter Lists Rank (I didn’t know there was one until I read the post). In my opinion, this is absurd and goes against everything that Twitter should be about. But the dementia didn’t stop here. Not to be outdone, this week Kawasaki wrote a post asking his readers and followers to help him “beat Pete” on the before mentioned rank. Apparently, there is a race going on to be #1 and followers are being used like click-bags to satisfy the ego of a few. Don’t we have enough swelled egos in the realm of the Twitterverse?
Is it just me or is this just plain wrong?
Both Cashmore and Kawasaki are forgetting something they say they defend: The right for every individual to choose what¹s right for them – without being influenced by anyone other than himself. After all, isn’t this what
the whole social media shebang is about? Users who adopt the tools and strategies (or lack thereof) that work for them and fit within the realm of their individual definition of the medium of Twitter or any other social medium? It appears that these two social media “gurus” feel as if theory is just fine until it applies to them at that point they clearly want to use their influence to manipulate the masses so as to achieve their individual goals.
But then I had a thought. Actually, the thought occurred in the part of my brain that I lovingly refer to as “Dick Cheney”. The brilliance that occurred to me was this: Maybe I am pointing the finger at the wrong guys and Obama actually started all of this by making a call to his followers to include him on a list. For a moment, that made perfect sense. After all, Obama is only the President of the good old US of A. How can that be compared to the dubious honor of being number one on the “Twitter Lists Ranking?” As I said, it was only for a moment. A really brief one. Like a nanosecond. Really tiny.
But, this led me to look for hard evidence as to whether or not this was the case.
The Search Begins.. and ends.
I searched the web (using several search engines), watched television (including Fox News) and listened to US Radio stations. I found no evidence. So, being the intrepid researcher that I am, I dove in even deeper I
watched Al-Jazeera for 24th time in a row and … still nothing. Then, in desperation, I even watched a few episodes of Cartoon Network. Still nothing. Not even a subliminal message. Nothing. Zero. Nada.
Do you really want to be on THAT list?
Apparently, the denizens of the Twitterverse added Barack Obama’s account to their personal Twitter lists all of their own volition. Imagine that!
Further, and as factual proof that numbers are meaningless, in the approximately 14,391 lists in which Obama is included as of the writing of this post, he is included in such dubious lists as “Grocery-News-Stand“, “Famous Douches I follow ” and, my personal favorite, “Useless Shit“.
There were also a myriad of people who added Mashable to their lists: Apart from the obvious blogger and social media lists, you can also find Mashable’s twitter account listed on “Spam “, “Desconhecidos” (Unknown) aswell as on the “Zombies ” list. Guy Kawasaki shows upon lists like “Gifted“, “Egos” and “Gringo” among, of course, a plethora of others.
Pete Cashmore was not happy with the people’s choice and decided to manipulate it. Apparently, Guy Kawasaki had nothing better to do, and decided to follow suit. Can you smell ego trip here? I can.
I have no personal dispute either with Peter Cashmore, Mashable’s team or Guy Kawasaki. I’ve actually even had the chance to exchange a few tweets about this with Kawasaki himself. Additionally, I am an avid reader of Kawasaki’s books and his “How to Drive your Competition Crazy” was, at the time it came out, a source of inspiration to me. Mashable featured one of the releases of my netlabel, bringing lots of new listeners and I am a fan and a daily reader of Mashable’s blog. In short, I like and respect these guys.
What comes as a shock to me, however, is that these two men, each possessed of considerable influence and reach, could use that influence to educate others, to inspire best practices and to make the Twitter experience more genuine and fruitful for everyone. Instead, they engage in a ridiculous contest to see how many lists they can amass under their respective belts and I find it rather disappointing. As mentioned previously, I have tremendous respect for both of these individuals, but, frankly, they are acting like adolescents chasing after the same girl – and it’s not even springtime (at least where I live)!. This “race” and the subsequent consequences that ego-driven endeavors like this might bring, are truly things that can be a tremendous negative for Twitter.
An example of the negative ramifications of stunts like this is the one million followers race between @aplusk and @cnn. During the time of that ego trip, Twitter, suffered tremendous operational difficulties and users experienced the hated Fail Whales more than ever. The system was barely functional and all due to an ego trip, disguised as a “power to the people revolution”.
I respectfully remind Cashmore and Kawasaki that with every follower comes added responsibility. And truly, there is no real purpose behind being included in thousands and thousands of user-generated lists, ranging from Gurus to Douchebags, from Hollywood Stars to Not-Good-Enough-to-Be-My-Gardener. Let’s all have a little reality check and remember to measure ourselves by virtue of the people we are, the good deeds we do and the differences we make on a day to day basis, rather than how large our penises are … oh wait, I mean to say rather than how many lists we are included on.
What do you think?
* in the spirit of this post you can make up your mind in what sense the word “monsters” is being used
I want to thank Shelly Kramer for her help in editing this post and make it so much better than when I finished writing it. THANK YOU! If you don’t follow her you will not be on any of my lists


LOVE LOVE LOVE this post, my friend! Not just because you mentioned me and my post in it (although I am grateful and honored) but because you are speaking truth with eloquence, humor and style. I’ll nrefrain from jumping on the dogpile and berating the “biggies” anymore than so many already have, but I will say I am SOOOOO exhausted with the games, ego trips and number manipulations. Moving onward and upward to create real relationships with real people like yourself. Much more fun, enjoyable, educational, meaningful and fulfilling. Great post by a great guy!
Really great post! I’ve just been sitting back and watching this list thing unfold. Totally agree, other’s are already handling this better, twitter should be focusing on the increasing spam attacks. They need to solidify their infrastructure before they add more stresses to it with silliness like this.
This is very well put; providing value gets lost in these ego trips. I have to admit I was a fan of what @aplusk did, purely because there was something about one person leading that race. As to it’s effect on Twitter’s infrastructure I’m not sure it’s the horse’s fault; Twitter built the racetrack after all.
I personally think Guy and Pete are both purely interested in hype and numbers these days, and whether that’s their egos or it’s the cost of running the particular businesses they run, not for me to say.
Great post, though. A must read.
Fantastic post. When I first joined Twitter, Pete C had an interesting post explaining why he chose to unfollow certain people. He had originally followed me, but since I occasionally blipped my music, that was enough of an infraction to be deemed expendable from his stream. I kept following him because his information is valuable. Lately, however, this list race has Mashable looking a lot like ads for teeth whiteners, 10,000 new followers, and $456 per day. Lists? Who cares? As far as I’m concerned, be kind, play well with others, bring something of value to the party, and the rest is fluff.
Good article! When I made my lists, it became immediately evident that only real parameters like location, profession, and if I had actually met the person in real life, would be the basis for any list I made. I can also see using a list to help manage projects, in which case the list would only be put together to serve myself in that effort. Once the project was complete, the list would likely be deleted. But with the advent of Google Wave, that will most likely be my choice for such undertakings. So I guess I will just plod along with my three lists; Boulder, Denver, and IRL.
…and yes, Shelly Kramer IS THE BOMBEST!!!
#TwitterLists Why @guykawasaki & @mashable don't get it: http://j.mp/2YdFRu
Hear hear, a lesson to all of us to be honest and real, because that ALWAYS proves to build a valuable, trusting, and ultimately useful network.
Like I keep saying, there is no right or wrong on Twitter. There’s only works for you and what doesn’t. Maybe this works for Pete and I and maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it doesn’t work for you, and that’s okay too.
Guy, we will have to disagree on this one. This, in my opinion, is not about Twitter. This is about handling the reach that anyone has being that of 1000 or 100,0000 for the better good or for one’s self purposes.
I think I made it clear on what side I stand on this one and I am really sorry you aren’t on the same side.
You’re both right, Zargon has pointed out their fault in acting like this (affects rep to some degree) but twitter is digital evolution in action. If something is ‘working’, it works. This kind of behaviour could affect them either way, but we can only observe and learn.
RT @Flipbooks: Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki & @mashable don't get it! http://bit.ly/X5c9c (via @ShellyKramer @jaycbee)
Surprised by this but agree with the author > RT @Flipbooks: Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki & @mashable don't get it! http://bit.ly/X5c9c
One of the geniuses of the twitter service is the flexibility it provides. My usage is unique to myself, and i don’t pester people to use it the same way that i do. But ego trips and mindless use of features has a negative impact on all the other users. People that have thousand of followers should realize that encouraging “vain” behavior is not what we should expect form people with responsibilities. It’s easy to make bad use of any service, best practices should be encouraged instead.
Thank you @guykawasaki for the comment on my blog post (http://zz.gd/e45b22) reg. #twitterlists. We will have to agree to differ on this 1..
RT @Flipbooks: Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki & @mashable don't get it! http://bit.ly/X5c9c via @ShellyKramer @jaycbee (great blog post!!)
RT @bkmacdaddy: Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don’t get it! http://zz.gd/e45b22 <= GREAT post by @fjfonseca
Van Morrison’s “Have I Told You Lately That I Love You” just keeps running through my head, FF. I do so love it that you’re never afraid to fight the good fight and say what you think needs to be said, even if it runs the risk of making people uncomfortable – or even angry. That’s what makes you a hero in my book – all day, every day.
I also think that the cool thing about Twitter, or any other social medium is that, other than with regard to spamming people, there is really no steadfast rule as to the “right way” to use the medium or a “wrong way” to use a medium. However, I truly don’t think this is about that at all. It genuinely is about having regard for the collective influence you have in the realm and using it for good. And that means putting your ego in the closet and firmly shutting the door – at least in my book it does.
Thanks for being you, my friend. My world is better because you are in it.
#jicym Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don't get it! http://zz.gd/e45b22
RT @fjfonseca: #jicym Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don't get it! http://zz.gd/e45b22
Great post.
Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don't get it! – http://cli.gs/XshZZ (via @fjfonseca)
@chrisbrogan Completely agree Chris. So you're not a fan of how @guykawasaki & @mashable chased numbers > http://bit.ly/X5c9c
RT @fjfonseca: #jicym Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don't get it! http://zz.gd/e45b22
@ctk1 @techbabe I think you will enjoy this: http://tr.im/EhOX
Interesting blog and thanks for it.
People can ego trip till the cows come home. So?
I imagine a percentage of people who will RT your blog are probably the hugest ego trippers of all time.
I don’t mean to make an ass out of you or me, specifically me, but I ASSUME Twitter added list function to create buzz for the web version. I use the web version. I imagine they are creating their idiotic RT function for the same reason. Clearly the many Apps already handle groups and RTs with ease, but hey, finally Twitter is catching up on… WHAT? On something and that’s a start. Are ‘lists’ a good idea? I don’t think so because it creates a High School clique element to the equation.
Am I now enjoying making up fun titles and adding people I really like to lists? Yes, I am. And guess what? They LOVE being added. So it’s a win/win situation.
Lists are here and knowing Twitter, lists are here to stay.
The worst thing about lists is now I will see 80k blogs about how it’s good or how it’s bad. *snooze*
If people want to ignore the list and not put people they care about on one, fine. Sure ignore the ones you constantly @ and follow their feeds. That’s your choice! If people want to only make lists featuring SEO blabbity-blabbers, fine.
If people want to be on the maximum number of lists imaginable, fine!
Oh and if people want to add themselves to every list they create, also fine.
People should do whatever they want. It’s no harm no foul. The only disgusting thing is when people give lists hateful names and add people they don’t like, but there is an easy fix to that, hit block user. Tadam.
Lists? Seriously, it’s a non-issue unless it’s a permanent feature that is halting the functionality. Yet like many nonissues involving Twitter we will see 80k blogs on it.
Lese : Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don’t get it! http://ow.ly/zHkZ
@AlexKaris Here you go, Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don't get it | http://bit.ly/RbegU | via @fjfonseca
@andrewmueller Can't believe you missed it, tootsie. http://bit.ly/RbegU
RT @ShellyKramer @AlexKaris Here you go, Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don't get it | http://bit.ly/RbegU | via @fjfonseca
Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don't get it! – http://cli.gs/XshZZ (via @fjfonseca @shellykramer)
thanks for this!! someone w/a mind of their own! you have wonderful insight and thanks for the reminder:
“I encourage you (and myself) to ignore the numbers and just be who you are. It is a challenge we all face, but hopefully we will instead embrace ignoring statistics and pursuing real relationships with genuine people.”
i think that while doing “what’s right” for you, which might be different than for someone else, many (the majority??) of the “influencers” and “gurus” ARE definitely focused on stats and numbers. if twitter is about engaging (as they all profess) and connections, how is that possible when you have thousands of followers or follow thousands of people? my twitter – providing they’ve even “deemed” me worth to follow, is less than a blip on their screen w/so much traffic in their stream.
i do follow a few of these people because i do learn something now and then. but it’s like anything else: not everything they tweet about is relevant or valuable to me. i take what i need and ignore the rest.
lists provides me a way to group the people i follow if i want to see what’s new in that area.. it hasn’t changed anything i do on twitter, really. i kind of like it for quick reference more than anything.
all in all – i use twitter for me and hope i can add value now and then for someone else – but beyond that, i’m not interested in numbers or the stats…or the popularity race that adding to or being added to a list seems to imply.
thanks again for your blog!! ~ tw
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (19:59)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (12:30)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (10:43)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (8:6)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (2:9)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (22:37)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (14:23)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (3:9)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (16:48)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (17:40)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (18:6)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (18:37)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (19:3)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (19:29)
What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (20:46)
RT @DigitalGodess: What do you think?of @fjfonseca: @guykawasaki @guyreplies http://zz.gd/e45b22 (22:3)
Reading: http://su.pr/2nLEGA Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don’t get it!
RT @JessicaGottlieb: Reading: http://su.pr/2nLEGA Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don’t get it!
! @JessicaGottlieb: Reading: http://su.pr/2nLEGA Twitter Lists: Why @guykawasaki and @mashable don’t get it!
Great post. It’s really fascinating to see how behaviors are emerging from Twitter. The ego feed is probably the one we see most.
What’s really funny, tho, is that if you ask the average Joe who Pete Cashmore, Guy Kawasaki or mashable is, they would give you a blank stare. But I would wager that most of them know who Barack Obama is. So being widely famous in your niche is important for your niche, but it doesn’t make you famous.
For me, I use twitter to connect with folks, keep track of my professional niche, and keep tabs on what’s happening *now*. There is no proper way to use Twitter, so if folks want to track ego, that’s great. For them.
Thanks for your smart post!
Twitter Lists-Why @guykawasaki & @mashable don’t get it http://su.pr/2nLEGA [gaming lists for self-aggrandizement] ht @JessicaGottlieb